Some serious feedback on current CF balance and more!

Any ideas are welcome here.
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Miacis
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:33 am

Some serious feedback on current CF balance and more!

Post by Miacis » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:33 am

Been a while since my last post here, so I'm going to provide some feedback on what we're playing right now.

First of all, overall balance in CF of version 2.0 feels much better than previous ones - a lot of small and big changes did hit multiple races and affected the gameplay mostly in pleasing way. For myself, at the least.
Now, let's look at particular races!

I did really like the direction of buffs of Nature race - when compared to other races it was, well, lacking and always providing more support or cheese rather than carry, if we can say so. By "carry race" I imply the race units or buildings of which are win conditions, meaning those units are doing the most damage in the fight (Frost Wyrms for example) and buildings directly affect your possibility destroy enemy base (Shrine of Destruction, Artillery). And by "support race" I imply the one that is able to stall the game and somehow help allied race until it has win condition ready to go. So, speaking about Nature - it had a couple of nice buffs recently: t3 spiders, t2 bears and mtn giants are little less expensive, also very noticeable DPS buff of KotG, But the one unit that feels abandoned now is Furbolg. I never saw my opponent winning if they were producing Furbolgs. The game haven't a lot of completely useless units, but this is one of them. In no situation ever would I or any skilled player build Furbolgs. There is literally no reason to do so: theit DPS is lacking, they cost a lot for what they do, their heal is so weak compared to Crusaders, Nothing makes me want to build this particular unit in any matchup over any other unit. They simply do not serve their purpose whether it is magic DPS or supporting allies with heal.

Now let's move to Naga race. It is a pretty straightforward race with somewhat strong ground and very weak air. But there's one unit I don't understand - the Siege Turtle. It is the other unit along with Furbolg which barely can serve own purpose. Its range is pretty low, slow attack makes proc effect not very valuable, and single target siege type damage just says "build this unit only if the enemy has Eraser". The idea of spiked shell is understandable - turtles had it in original WC3 - but unfortunately not logical at all: since turtles are ranged, they aren't usually the ones to tank enemy frontline with melee attacks. Maybe give it Spike Aura like Chaos' Quill Demons have? Again, nothing makes me want to build Turtles when I can add just a few gold build a lot more useful Sirenas which will do considerable amount of damage to fortified armour due to chaos damage source as well as have useful abilities. Turtle also haven't any other abilities that are usual to siege units: no demolish, no area damage. No point in building it as siege unit at all.

When one is talking about problematic units, it is impossible to not mention Orcs and their Wyvern. This is probably the last unit that nobody would ever build for any reason. Since Orcs, as I reckon, very ground oriented race, I am okay with having bad air unit. But it shouldn't suck at the least! Let's look at Naga: their air unit is a decent opener, since it has bounce attack and magic damage source. It makes unit useful in general in first few minutes of the game, but has no upgrades and becomes very lackluster with the flow of the game, completely falling off in late stages. It feels like Wyvern has only downsides: it is squishy, it has piercing damage, it has no upgrades. It can't be a decent starter because it becomes useless at the very moment your units engage into battle. Maybe give it AI of gnolls from WC3 which would attack diffirent enemies to apply poison on all of them? Only this would make Wyvern at least a bit sought-after, even the poison damage isn't that great.

The aforesaid units are tending to be situational and neat, but they can't provide as much use as it is needed to. Is it made by design? Is it not intended? If one is talking about situatuional units, let's recall Marksmen, which will be utterly useless against Naga+Orc combo, because they won't be building any air units most likely, but very useful against other races which has actual battle air units. THIS is what I call "situatuinal" unit. Furbolgs, Wyverns and Turtles? They, as classified units, do their job worse than some other well-rounded unit would do same job instead (look up for Siren and Turtle comparison).

The other side of the coin is Chaos race. With almost no bad matchups, this race has been living through multiple nerfs over recent patches and still one of the strongest. It is hard to say when it is enough when you're nerfing something that is as much overpowered, but there is one thing that shouldn't go past developer's attenton: this race with super good late game exels at stalling until this late game and one of the main reason here in my opinion is Infernal. It is just too good for its cost and effectivness. It does everything: can fight air, ground, has enormous chaos damage and in additon AoE burning. They are way too huge pain in the ass and usually games in which you don't have any magic damage to be able to kill them fast enough will end way before Shrine of Destruction would actually destroy any building. They should probably have a little less HP (cutting by just couple hundreds would be pretty good I think) or simply cost more or even give less wood.

I liked a lot how reworked Elementals are working. They seem to be in the very good shape right now after multiple upgrade cost changes and are very well-rounded race. This is definitely good product of balancing.

This is all I have to say for now, again thanks Sunus for a great map and working on it! Hoping to see if you consider any of my thoughts logical enough to be able to affect the content of next patch.
Peace!

edit: grammar
Last edited by Miacis on Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sunus
Map Developer
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:20 pm

Re: Some serious feedback on current CF balance and more!

Post by Sunus » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:15 pm

Thanks for your comments

alifatic3
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:41 am

Re: Some serious feedback on current CF balance and more!

Post by alifatic3 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:00 pm

Nice ideas man.
Maybe...

NATURE
Furbolg 180 Elder Furbolg 180

ORC

Infostealer
Spell/debuff changes
Mantain buff/debuff stealll
Dont lose shaman buff capacity
25% spell resist

Wyvern
+10% hp
2 targets

ELF

Blademaster 200
Elder Blademaster 220

NAGA

Serpent
+15% HP
4 Targets
100% at 1st / 50% fixed on another 3.

ELEMENTAL
Water
-10% on each level (To 40, 50, 60%)

CHAOS
Exchance SoD to a comom defensive tower, pierding arro with burn fire/dot.

NORTHERN
More time towers without producing, less damage

HUMAN
Less aoe on artilhery

Miacis
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:33 am

Re: Some serious feedback on current CF balance and more!

Post by Miacis » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:20 pm

I believe that other units are balanced well.
Although Infostealer losing Shaman buff feels weird, I agree on this one.

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